Monday, January 10, 2011

Fight or Flight?

Dear Hoops

At what point do you give up on a 10 year marriage where almost everything is "fine" but you don't have sex any more? 

We get along ok most of the time, but due to a chronic health issue on his part, we've done the nasty exactly once since last Labor Day, and it was a shaken-out-of-a-dead-sleep 2-minute quickie. This is unacceptable.

I'm trying to be patient, but even when he's not in the midst of a flare up (he has IBS, for the record) he promises we will and but we never do. He claims to be as unhappy about this as I am, but he never brings it up unless I do and his actions contradict that. he makes zero effort and I've quit trying because I'm tired of being told no. 

He's able, physically, to perform, he just doesn't seem to want to. And no, he's not having an affair. 

Is this a valid reason to break up a family? I can't live the rest of my life as a nun and I find myself frequently depressed and/or crying myself to sleep (alone of course- he never come to bed) because of this. Am I crazy?

Signed,
Deprived or Depraved?



Dear Depraved,

Don’t be silly.  Of course you’re crazy!  I mean, who makes vows to love through sickness and in health, in good times and in bad and then wants to bail on a relationship and a family when almost everything is fine—with the exception of sex?  Don’t get me wrong, I feel for you.  I understand your dilemma and I KNOW it’s serious, but I also want to pick you up and shake you until your neck snaps or common sense shakes loose.  

The most telling statement in your letter to me is this one:  “I’ve quit trying because I’m tired of being told no.”  Divorce is the quitters option and it sounds like you are a quitter.  Well this is bigger than you sweetheart, so put on your big girl panties and refuse to quit on your FAMILY.  That’s right, this isn’t just about you and never-loved loins, this is about your family.  I’m assuming that means you have kids.  Do you really want to subject them to divorce just because you’re a) horny and b) tired of trying and ready to quit?

People like you bug me and I’ll tell you why.  You “try” and when “trying” doesn’t work it’s all woe me, pity me!  You know what Jedi-fucking-Master Yoda said about trying?  He said, “Do, or do not, there is no [motherfucking] try!”  Trying means that you’ve attempted to talk about and been put off.  Doing means you’ve made it absolutely clear to your husband just how deeply this affects you.  You’ve told him that if the sex doesn’t pick up—and drastically—that you would definitely think about cheating on him.  You’ve told him that if the sex doesn’t pick up that you’ve already considered divorce.

Doing means couples counseling and if he won’t go, it means going on your own.  Doing means divorce only even occurs to you after you have given every possible other solution a meaningful chance.  

Do you really think you’re alone here?  Do you really think you’re unique?  Do you really think that in the history of couples, you are the first to hit a rut in the sex department after 10 years of marriage and (I’m assuming) a kid or two?  If every couple who reached this challenge point just got tired of trying and got a divorce the divorce rates would be…well, what they are now.  So, do you want to be one of those fucktard quitters?  Do you want to subject your kids to the difficulties that divorce brings?  Do you want them to grow up with less self-esteem and greater trust issues as many children of divorce often have?  

Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I truly only believe in divorce in the case of mental or physical abuse.  Everything else can be fixed.  The only exception to that is when one partner refused to help fix a situation but you’re a long way away from that point.  You’re nowhere near that point.  What you’ve done to “try” isn’t even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to this marriage, to this family and to yourself.  

The most commonly shared thing I’ve noticed about situations like yours is that the partner in your husband’s shoes, NEVER fully understands how serious this issue is to you.  The man routinely says it’s important to him too, routinely says that he wants more sex too, routinely says all those things and then doesn’t do a damn thing.  The most common thing I’ve noticed about women in your shoes is that you never TRULY make it clear just how serious this issue is until you start throwing around the D-word like a fucking ninny.  

My advice to you is to WAKE HIM UP.  You are teetering on the brink and he has no fucking clue.  I don’t care what you’ve told him—he has no fucking clue!  Everything else is fine.  He does not understand just how serious the issue of sex is to you.  All your trying has been for naught.  You haven’t even made a dent.  The bigger issue here is that this is a HUGE issue for you and it’s barely registered on his radar as more than a minor little thing.

You can’t even THINK about divorce until you’ve “tried” so hard that you are 100% certain that he fully understands the gravity of the issue.  He has to fully understand that the corner you feel backed into leaves you with only two options that you can see—cheating or divorcing him.  You never even bring cheating up in your letter so I’m going to assume that it’s not part of your plans—that’s good, because cheating is the other reason why I think divorce is a valid option.  That said, its worth putting on the table in your discussions with him.  Let him know that you’re not a cheater, but because of that, your only option to get sex—which is very important to you—is to end your marriage.  

You aren’t special.  You aren’t unique.  You are just like a many, many, many others.  Your issue is common.  Your problem is universal.  What will separate you, what can make you unique and special is how you deal with your problem.  It’s easy to quit.  It’s easy to “quit trying.”  If you respect your marriage, your kids, your family and yourself so little that you’re willing to quit trying at this stage of things then go ahead, this won’t make a dent.  But if you meant any of what you said when you vowed to be this man’s wife, then there should be no point at which you ever stop trying.  

Two or three years from now you’ll look back on this situation and it’ll be one of two things:  It’ll have been a blip on the radar, something that you fought and overcame and seems silly now as you look back, or it’ll be the thing that destroyed your family and forever affected the way you look at men and the way your children look at and understand relationships and love.  The difference will be whether or not you have truly quit trying, or whether you understand, as the only person who truly understands the weight of things as they stand, you have not yet even begun to fight.

I hope you’re a fighter.  I hope you said things in your letter born of frustration rather than them being what is truly in your heart.  I have a feeling that you’re more than your letter leads us to believe.  I have a feeling you’re stronger.  I have a feeling you can do this.  Prove me right.

Be a fighter,

hoops  

24 comments:

  1. I have a feeling she's not as strong as you would like her to be. She sounds like she is whining about not being able to have sex.

    Despite the fact that she knows that her husband is going through some medical trauma and may not feel up to it.

    "Through sickness and in health" has left her mind.

    Good luck getting her back to it.

    ~Menicy~

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  2. I was waiting for the advice about waking him up by sitting on his face and taking what he won't give it to you. I'm somewhat disappointed!

    I hate how divorce has come to be considered as a reasonable alternative for the hard work of marriage. People are more willing to hash things out with difficult coworkers in order to save their job than willing to work things out with their spouse to save their marriage.

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  3. I agree with 99% of this but I would add that it is acceptable to leave a marriage when you believe that remaining in the marriage is going to shorten your life -- even if there is no overt abuse. Neglect can be as bad as overt abuse.

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  4. I really hope she takes your advice. Quitting is definitely not the best option. And I agree with you on the divorce/abuse comment.

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  5. I think you guys are forgetting how important sexual attention is. Take it from me, after 12 years of fighting him to care about my needs too, it gets tiring and painful. It makes you feel like you're not worth it, like he doesn't love you anymore. Or that he finds you unattractive. It brings you down like you wouldn't believe.

    You were so quick to assume that she's a quitter and you don't even know what she's really going through. Think about how you would feel in her situation. She said that he is able to be sexually active, so why isn't he making an effort?

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  6. Thank you for defending the "family" part of this equation. KIds deserve an intact home and if that means the parents who brought them into this world have to sacrifice and/or become really good actors, then so be it.

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  7. Oh, and she's NOT whining. She's asking for advice.

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  8. Family? Oh my....sometimes people have to leave a relationship...even if they have kids. Sometimes its better for everyone.

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  9. So what you saying is to use the Grin and bear it tactic? LAME. Everyone deserves happiness and to be treated right. Clearly you guys have no idea what its like to be in a relationship thats going nowhere. Kids know the difference between real and fake happiness. They can feel tension. They're not stupid. They would be happier if their parents were happy and there was no tension in the home(s)

    I say that she should lay it out on the table and see what happens.

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  10. I agree with all of this. Marriage is work and until you know for an absolute FACT that your spouse isn't willing to do the work and understands how serious things are, divorce is NOT an option. Kids or no kids.

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  11. I know someone who has IBS, and yes, there are flareups, but when there's not, he has absolutely no excuse. And if that's his excuse, it's pretty much the lamest one ever. It makes me think something else is going on.

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  12. This subject hits so close to home for me. A health issue constantly made my sex life with my husband infrequent. I got frustrated sometimes. We talked about it. We tried different things. Sometimes he just couldn't. His health was that bad.

    If he's not making a big deal, maybe he's ashamed? He's embarrassed, maybe. Do you know how emasculating an IBD, IBS can be? How sexy would you feel if you shit in your pants and felt crampy and couldn't control how tired and ill you felt?


    I guess I'm old fashioned too. If he wouldn't have passed away? I would have never left him. I'm so grateful I was ever in his life that this person makes me angry that she could throw it away.

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  13. and to Shar, people with IBS between flareups may still be on medication that may be affecting sex drive. You have no idea, she didn't explain all of that. http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/index.php?/topic/125009-sex-life/

    it's a prevalent issue. It's not just an excuse.

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  14. Izzy, how can you read this and get "grin and bear it" from that advice? Did you read the whole thing?

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  15. I am skeptical that everything else is fine. And from experience in my previous marriage (I am a quitter, I guess), I am not sure you can understand how humiliating it is to beg your spouse for sex. It's incredibly deflating and damaging... I know when I went through it, it ruined sex for me. To only get it because you've begged or ranted or threatened to cheat or divorce? How healthy is that for this woman?

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  16. Another amazing bit of Hoops advice. Sometimes I get scared at the beginning of your responses, because you are so HARSH on your subjects at first, but then you bring it home in such an enlightened, refreshing, tough love way that it all makes sense. Good work!

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  17. I did read the whole thing but I was referring to a comment that was made.

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  18. I think sex is VERY important in a marriage. It is by no means the only thing that should hold a couple together, but the fact is that it is a very strong and important way to connect with your partner. Different people express and receive love differently. For a lot of women, sex is about emotional connection. Without it we feel unwanted and unloved in a basic way. I feel for this woman. I know how much it can tear at your self esteem when sex is put on the back burner. It's so much more than "being horny" as you say. I do agree with the part where you suggest couples therapy, however I also think that you were a little off base by putting down her needs by using the phrase "never loved loins". Overall good advice, even if you were a bit lacking on the empathy.

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  19. Usually I agree with ya hoops, but you missed a major piece of advice: the doctor! Usually you advocate for that so strongly too.

    Also, while your advice about doing everything to save the marriage is awesome, you seem to be telling this woman: if all else fails, just deal with it. Abandoning a partner is a great reason for that partner to get a divorce and if it comes down to it, once she really has tried everything, she is perfectly within her rights as an adult woman with sexual needs to get that divorce.

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  20. I have IBS and I guess I'm lucky I only have a mild case because I can't understand why this man wouldn't want to have sex. It has never affected my sex drive like it has this man. Hoops, I think you were too rough on this woman. I know that you're all about saying it from the gut and sticking to your guns, but the humiliation of begging for sex and love is crippling. You always advocate for the man who has the problem and tell the woman to give him a second chance. Most of the time I agree because I believe most problems can be worked out. But ten years of begging would kill any woman's self-esteem.
    Just my thought...

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  21. Totally agree with Malachi

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  22. While I agree on the whole, "Do or do not..." Yoda quote, and that there are basically only two valid reasons for divorce: Infidelity or Abuse (by Abuse I do mean any form)... I do consider this to perhaps be a form of emotional abuse. No man, no matter how sick, unless he is physically unable to "perform" will deny his partner sex for more than a month.

    Maybe he *is* cheating and is using his IBS as an excuse. My ex used his sore back as an excuse, and swore up & down that he wasn't cheating. I later found out that he was. I agree with Malachi - ten years of begging - or even two years of begging is humiliating and emotionally crippling, especially with the rate of rejection she seems to be having.

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  23. After reading some of the other comments here, I wanted to make clear that, IMHO, having an illness that affects your sex drive is also affecting his ability to "perform" - if you're not into it, you're not into it. It should be discussed thoroughly though, and the importance should definitely be stressed to him from his wife. As my hubby would put it "Do I have T-FAL across my forehead yet?" LOL! Yeah subtlety was never one of my forte's ... maybe she should be less subtle about her needs?

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  24. I was the one who submitted this question and I have to say, even though it wasn't necessarily wha I wanmted to hear, Hoops was right as far as what he knew of the situation.

    However, I didn't mention that we HAVE done counseling,that I HAVE done my best to make it clear that this is a deal-breaker, that this has been going on for years, and that it just seems to always been SOMETHING that gets in the way of sex. Before the IBS it was migraines, and before that it was his drug/alcohol addiction. So it's not like I haven't TRIED and stuck by this man. Just wanted to clarify that. Thanks to everyone who gave input on this: you've all given me food for thought. But it does hurt to feel so unloved after all I have been through for him. You have no idea unless you've been through it.

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